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Report 902
Report #902 Skillset: Necroscream Skill: QueensLament/New Org: Cacophony Status: Rejected Jul 2012 Furies' Decision: We do not like the solutions presented or agree with the problem as phrased. The solutions feel overreaching. Also note: SickeningPlague is Gorgulu and DespairWeb is Baalphegar. Problem: Queenslament is currently lacking as our only targeted power costing ability. Also, with systems nearing AI sophistication, random cure orders, multiple cures for things affliction based classes can be at a disadvantage. Adding in some versatility would go a long way to address this in Necroscream -- There are currently only has 3 songs regarding the 5 Demon Lords. Darkmaster is Luciphage, WrathfulCanticle is Ashtorath and then QueensLament for Nifilhema. -- I propose changing QueensLament to a targeted song with 3 options, one for Nifilhema, one for Gorgulu and one for Baalphegar. I suggest changing the name to LordsofBlight, 3p where it would be a targeted song so perform x target. Where x would be one of suffer, devour and curse. (the power is on the high end for the effects but Im factoring in the versatility into the cost.) Solution #1: Suffer would be for Nifilhema with shackles, vapors and sensitivity (changing blackout to vapors means there is an additional aff to cure but it also means that it can be blocked by black tea and such. Sensitivity because its thematic and curing it and vapors would use herb and salve balances). Solution #2: Devour would be for Gorgulu with gluttony, anorexia and would steal the cure balances for herbs, sip and focus mind. (Thematically for a hunger that can never be sated and consumes some cure balances. Would only stick anorexia for 1 second as that is how long herb balance is. Possible synergy with aeon but there are better and cheaper ways to do that in group combat and would not be viable 1 on 1 unless the eq is less than 1 second which it is not) Solution #3: Curse would be for Baalphegar with a stun and two random mental affs from Hypochondria, paranoia, hallucinations, dementia stupidity (These are the most disease like mental affs out there to keep it thematic. They are all strong though with overlapping cures and would synergize with stun, so I went with two instead of three) Player Comments: ---on 6/23 @ 19:35 writes: Report not supported. Just because QL "comes up lacking" when compared with similar abilities should in no way mean that it needs buffing in any way. One needs to look at the bigger picture here and set its effect alongside the rest of a Cacophonists offence. ---on 6/23 @ 21:04 writes: Cacophony offences is based on hidden afflictions. Shackles and a reason for people to diagnose themselves is not worth 2 power. Happy to make it worth 2p or worth 3p. Can give a minor buff with 1 or add in a small measure of cure hindering with 2 and 3. ---on 6/29 @ 13:55 writes: Re-tooled the report some. The desired outcome would be solutions 1, 2, and 3. I broke them up to make it easier to read and comment about. (for those worried about this being a back door increase in the number of abilities, if hallibards get a terrain based ability then Cacophony and Harbingers would be the only specs with 23 instead of 24 abilities, so I dont think its a huge issue.) ---on 7/1 @ 01:45 writes: Solution 1 should probably either be vapors OR sensitivity. Changing the entangles of queen's lament to shackles means that summer/tipheret no longer can 'nullify' it (though that was addressed already in another report), and either of sensitivity or a short blackout via vapors would be okay. Solution 3 is a near clone of crowcaw? Solution 2: In any situation where someone has many hunger levels, you are already massively winning as hunger levels are very deadly all on their own. This seems unnecessary. All together: This reads like a report to make QueensLament a better copy of what it is already (Solution 1) PLUS two other entire special targeted power song abilities, one that closely mimics (sans bleeding) another power song. I don't think it's appropriate. I APPROVE an altered Solution 1, OR Solution 3 (I guess), but NOT the mechanic described by the Peoblem and all three solutions taken together. ---on 7/1 @ 02:00 writes: Anyways, what looks like the best Caco strategy is to get plague affs on an enemy through SickeningPlague supported by the bedevil-like-effect of BlackDeath so that CarillonKnell does h/m/e damage which you use with aurics to channel large amounts of damage to the target. It looks to me like the entire purpose of QueensLament is to hold your enemy down while you work on doing that. Your entire repitoire focuses on punishing the target for escaping your entangles quickly and on making you tanky enough to survive for your plague to build up, through VileBlood and NecroBallad or for you to use active plague givers to build it up yourself (like a curse scroll or the spike, if you have the construct up). Everything you've got points to the idea that you are supposed to play the waiting and hindering game while your enemy plagues to death, any change to this skill should probably support that concept. So, Solution 1 is okay, the others... not so much. ---on 7/1 @ 17:22 writes: I think there may be some confusion here. QueensLament currently gives shackles and blackout for 2p. Also, shackles, webbing enchant and hangedman tarot card all give the -exact- same entanglement. They are different in name only so that they can stack. Despair web adds about a second or so to a normal writhe, less for contort/summer/tiphert.. Torture song adds minor bleeding based on number of plague affs. ---on 7/1 @ 17:47 writes: As for strategy. The the plagues are on different cure balances so that people can instantly cure 4 of the 5. Three of them give messages on tics with a fourth having a chance to. Blackdeath has a 66% chance to give a plague aff if one is cured in the bard's presence while able to hear. Using just firstaid it's possible to stay on top of them. Throw in the karmic blessing of death, passive curing and there are those who simply won't be phased by this. This report is meant to offer up a little variety in options when our main avenue is blocked and fill out the theme some. Sol. 2 gives a little direct damage that the skill set lacks and 3 gives a stun to hinder curing and affs to distract from curing plagues (crowcaw gives bleeding and a different list of affs) -- TortureSong, DespairWeb, Vileblood, and Necroballad are low stanza so we can't have them all at once. ---on 7/1 @ 23:20 writes: Just a little note to add, but shackles is a different affliction to web/hangedman, and they do stack, so someone can be webbed, shackled and transfixed causing three separate writhes. ---on 7/2 @ 01:31 writes: Shackles/web/hangedmand all give the exact same entanglement. They are different in name only so that they can be stacked. You can be shackled webbed and roped (hangedman) at the same time. You could writhe 3 times or use magic to clear all 3 at once. Any serious attempt to stack them is a ridonculous waste of time. Summer/Tipheret can be cast in all kinds of conditions that normally prevent spell casting. To even try doing so would take multiple people as they all have longer eq/bal than the slowest of writhe times, even with despairweb. - Transfix is an altogether different bag of tricks. ---on 7/3 @ 09:17 writes: Perhaps envoying summer/tipheret to only clear one of these entanglements at a time would be a good idea. Would help with QL as well as other guilds that can stack entanglements. ---on 7/3 @ 19:59 writes: I'm fine Asmodea's solution. I'd even be fine with attaching a power cost to summer/tiph dpending on the number of entanglements removed as well ---on 7/4 @ 08:34 writes: Yeah, that sounds fair. I would support this, also. ---on 7/5 @ 14:34 writes: To even try stacking entanglements take multiple people and there are more effective ways to pin someone down in groups since webbings dont hinder curing. I am not sure adding perma entangle to group combat would be particularly advantageous or enjoyable. ---on 7/10 @ 22:55 writes: Very much against making summer/tiph remove only one entangle. Yes, it's still faster than writhe in most cases. But there are various things that already cannot be broken out of with those, and when you fight someone that has normal entangle as well as one of those (such as transfixion/webbing) it becomes very hard to actually do a thing. Those skills help balance web spam. ---on 7/12 @ 14:07 writes: After some feedback I changed Gorgulus Devour to move away from damage and no longer being based on any status condition. Would change it to give two afflictions, gluttony and anorexia, and steal a few cure balances herb, sip and focus mind. If that is too much then the sip balance stealing could be dropped. ---on 7/14 @ 04:10 writes: To the discussion that started in the comments about summer/tipheret: I do not think it is a good idea to fix one problem with a specific guild (QueensLament, Cacophony) by creating new problems for new guilds (entanglement/ectoplasm stacking). And yes, I(and Nihilists) would have the most to gain from that change. ---on 7/17 @ 05:44 writes: I'm having a bit of difficulty with this report. The main idea is to turn one ability into three, but I'm not seeing a compelling reason described here for it-- in the comments you're talking about entangle being 'easy to cure' but it's not like the ability is really bad as-is. Entangle and blackout on command for 2p is not exactly underpowered, and even if the entangle is 'easy to cure', it's still something used often in combat to help pin an enemy down. Why does Necroscream -need- these new abilities? ---on 7/17 @ 13:02 writes: The main goal is to give cacos some strategic options for people who are not fazed by plague affs. Also giving pretty minor cure hindering, suffer herb/salve balances ~1 sec, devour herb/focus mind ~3 seconds, curse however long the stun is and a couple distraction affs. I would like to see the Demon Lord theme flushed out as well. I don't think entangle/blackout is worth 2p or that entangle/2 unmasked affs is worth 3p but if it had other options then 3p would be justified. ---on 7/17 @ 15:27 writes: **Alternate option for solution 2. Devour would give a 50% to have Gorgulu gobble up attempts to cure plague afflictions for 30 seconds. Cure balance would be used and aff not cured if it fired. 3 power. Would not trigger on passive/magical cures or allheale. (the cure balances that would be affected are 1 second each or 2 seconds for focus mind) ---on 7/19 @ 07:00 writes: I'm afraid I'm not seeing a need for the report as is, and it definitely suffers from the very popular 'asking for too many complicated things' that certain reports recently been guilty from. My suggestion is to redo this and try again with...baby steps. Why not suggest a change for the afflictions of QL instead of -entirely remaking the skill and adding 3 new effects for it- ---on 7/25 @ 17:36 writes: Keeping everything the same with just the changes in solution 1 for 2p would be fine if this is getting unwieldy. I dont think two unmasked affs and entangle are worth 3p without the variety of the other ones. Or just changing the blackout to vapors would be better than nothing. ---on 7/26 @ 19:28 writes: You're asking for too much in an already strong skillset, I'm sorry. OPPOSED. ---on 7/30 @ 14:26 writes: Necroscream is pretty solid but it can also be pretty nullified with food and aggressive curing. Was hoping to add in strategic options but if I got carried away with it then oh well. Im open to having this evolve into a multi report situation or just a minor buff to QueensLament or just going back to the drawing board.